Dungeons and Dragons Help

I played a bit of the good old D&D in high school, and I even bought the three core rulebooks (Edition 3.5). Now, I've got some friends interested in playing. Since I'm the one with books and any experience, I'm in charge of DMing and teaching.

I know a bunch of you have spent time playing this game, so I thought I'd try to get help here. For the most part, I understand how things are supposed to work, but every once in a while, rules seem to contradict themselves. Hopefully someone here can help a brother out. I really appreciate any help that can be offered.

I'm confused about Cleric spells!

One of my friends decided to play a Human Cleric. While we were creating the character sheet, I ran into some confusion about how many spells he should be able to use per day. According to the Classes chapter, a 1st level Cleric gets 3 zero-level spells, 1 first-level spell, and 1 domain spell per day (5 in total). The Cleric in question has a Wisdom score of 18, which leads me to my confusion.

With Wisdom at 18, he gets a bunch of bonus spells: 4 first-level, 3 second-level, 2 third-level, and 1 fourth-level (10 in total). Should he really be able to cast 15 spells per day, and even up to fourth-level ones? Since a Cleric "must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level," he should be able to cast fourth-level spells. Am I understanding this correctly? The character just seems overpowered in this manner, especially considering that a Cleric wouldn't normally be learning fourth-level spells until he is level seven (based on the chart in the Classes chapter).

If I am understanding this correctly, do bonus spells in higher levels allow for bonus domain spells in those levels as well?

I'm heading over to a game today and one of my friends is very experienced with clerics, so I'll see if I can get him to write up a response for you if no one else has responded by then. I won't be heading over there until about Noon, though.

Sounds about right. He gets the +1 domain spell. Also don't forget the extra spells for a high wisdom. They get bonus spells just like any other caster.

Edit: That was him, btw, hope it helps.

General Specific wrote:Sounds about right. He gets the +1 domain spell. Also don't forget the extra spells for a high wisdom. They get bonus spells just like any other caster.

Edit: That was him, btw, hope it helps.

Not all the casters get the bonus spells, though. Not at the first level at least. Right under the bonus table, it says a Wizard with Intelligence of 15 is smart enough to know a bonus second-level spell, but won't get it until the character is level three. So do they only get the bonuses the class chart allows?

Ok, I emailed me friend that question and here is his response:

Well, he needs to refer to page 17 in the Pathfinder rulebook. It shows
that characters with high int, wis, cha, get bonus spells depending on
the class. For instance, a wizard with an int of 20 at first level gets 2
bonus 1st level spells. The chart for the wizard that shows his spells
will show what the minimum spells they can get is and at what level they
get them at.

The important thing to remember is even though you
get the bonus spells based on a high int for them, you can't cast higher
level spells than you have acces to. For instance, a wizard doesn't get
access to 2nd level spells until 3rd level. He must also note that you
don't get bonus 0 level spells. Also, all spellcasters get bonus spells
based on whatever ability they use for casting. IE wisdom for clerics,
cha for sorcerers, int for wizards, ect...

One more thing, all
casters need high int/wis/cha/whatever for the spells to cast higher
level spells. If a wizard has an int of 15, he can cast up to 5th level
spells, 3rd for 13, and no spells other than level 0 spells for an int
of 10.

Hope this helps.

Now, my own interpretation from looking at the cleric info in the player's handbook is that a 1st level Cleric gets access to 3 0-level spells and 2 1st level spells.

2nd level spells would not be unlocked until the Cleric reached 3rd level, going by the chart on pg 31.

The Wisdom score just determines how many bonus spells are given. A 14 would give 1 extra spell at 1st level (cleric level * ability modifier * .5 see: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Ability_Scores#Table:_Ability_Modifiers_and_Bonus_Power_Points), but it has to be from the list of spells the Cleric has access to (list on page 183 of Player's Handbook).

For instance, a 1st level cleric with an 18 wisdom gets 2 extra spells, but can only choose from 0 & 1st level spells. They could choose Magic Weapon (1st level spell) and Cure Minor Wounds (0-level spell), but not Bull's Strength (2nd level spell).
Once the 3rd level of cleric is taken, Bull's Strength and all of the other 2nd level spells would be available.


I believe my friend may have been misreading things or not understanding things entirely.

Thanks for the help. That's what I've been starting to think the answer was, but it doesn't explicitly say anywhere whether or not the Cleric has to unlock a level of spells or not. Thanks for your help, though.

Feats!

So, another question came up when we were choosing Feats for the Cleric. Can a first-level character use Quicken Spell? It says "a quickened spell uses up a spell slot four levels higher than the spell's actual level" (Page 98). Obviously, there are a lot of empty slots above a first-level character's spells, but can they be used for something like this?

For that one, it sounds like you would need to have access to spells 4 levels higher than the one you want to cast.

For instance, you'd need to have access to 5th level spells to use a 1st level quickened spell. The 1st level spell would cast instantly (free action), but uses up one of the 5th level spell slots. I checked and a cleric would have to be 9th level in order to do that.

I'd assume 0-level spells would be available to be quickened once the 4th level spells are opened up at 7th level for a cleric.

That all sounds pretty fair as being able to instantly cast a spell and then move & attack/cast normally is pretty powerful.

General Specific wrote:For that one, it sounds like you would need to have access to spells 4 levels higher than the one you want to cast.

For instance, you'd need to have access to 5th level spells to use a 1st level quickened spell. The 1st level spell would cast instantly (free action), but uses up one of the 5th level spell slots. I checked and a cleric would have to be 9th level in order to do that.

I'd assume 0-level spells would be available to be quickened once the 4th level spells are opened up at 7th level for a cleric.

That all sounds pretty fair as being able to instantly cast a spell and then move & attack/cast normally is pretty powerful.

That's kind of what I figured. I'll get my friend to pick something else, then. Thanks for your help.

No problem, throw any more questions you have my way and I'll do my best to answer them or get one of my much more experienced friends to help.

Also, as DM, just remember to use your best judgment on things and if something sounds overpowered, it probably is.

Do you have any other general tips?

Nothing much, really. Just be sure to make things challenging without making it too hard. Keep your players on their toes, that sort of things.

And don't feel bad about running a pre-made adventure, those can be pretty fun.

General Specific wrote:Nothing much, really. Just be sure to make things challenging without making it too hard. Keep your players on their toes, that sort of things.

And don't feel bad about running a pre-made adventure, those can be pretty fun.

I'm using a pre-made adventure (The Gryphon's Legacy from Sun & Scale). I figured it would be a good way for me to get used to DMing and refamiliarize myself with the game.

So, here's a question. What happens if they all get themselves killed? I realize the rules have all kinds of stuff about resurrection, but for a bunch of first-level characters (first-level players, too, for that matter), it would seem like I should set up some kind of respawn point. Have you ever done something like that?

Also, in the adventure I'm using, they always mention magic items with plus something, like a +2 dagger. Does that just mean it has +2 added to its attack bonus, or does the number apply to something else? I haven't found anything in my books regarding this.

As far as 1st level chars dying, that is really up to you. They can be dead-dead or you can be nice and set them up with something special. Local temple rezzes them for free due to them defending the town or something. Usual penalty for being rezzed is half of the previous level (lvl 4 gets rezzed, they are now lvl 3 & 1/2), but you can waive that if you like. You can also hit the reset button or just rewind things a bit. You are God, after all.

If they hit a trap and all died, then maybe reset things to before the trap. Call it one of their gods rewinding time for them a bit, or just part of the trap, or a hiccup in reality, etc. etc. Then, have them roll something to see if they notice the time jump. Then, instruct them to act accordingly. Might be a good way to teach them that player knowledge does not equal character knowledge. Anyway, just an idea.

As far as the magical items go, it is like this: +1 adds to the attack & damage, +2 adds either an additional +1 (so +2 att & dmg) or adds an effect like fire or frost. If it is an effect, you usually see it give the damage or properties for that (usually elemental dmg is just 1d6).

In the game I'm playing in, we just hit level 5 and are just now getting +2 stuff, so dole that out rarely at low levels. +1 stuff is fine. Also note that if something is masterwork, it gets a +1 to attack only and that does not stack when it is enchanted (as in a masterwork dagger gets +1 att, but when enchanted to a dagger +1, the same dagger has +1 to att and dmg).

Gorram it! I fall out of the forum habit for a bit and this is what I miss!? Something very up my alley!?

DMing tips from me include:

Be awesome at improve. The players will always do something that you did not prepare for, especially if you are using a published adventure.

Be flexible. At times, the characters will make strange decisions. If it feels out of character, let them know you feel that way but allow them explain themselves. If all seems like it makes sense, run with it.

Memorize the rules. They won't.

Customize the adventure to the characters. Since you are using a pre-published adventure, make sure your characters have a solid connection to what is occurring. Maybe there is a family member or old friend involved. Perhaps something they care for is threatened. Or maybe someone from their past they thought was on their side really is evil.

...................that's all I have for now. Keep us posted.

So, we've had two D&D sessions so far. They've gone fairly well. I understand the importance of memorizing the rules, but it's really an absurdly difficult challenge for me because so much of it has no context while I'm reading it. I only played a little in high school, and based on what I remember, we probably weren't playing right. If I had more experience as a player, this would probably be easier.

Two of my four players are at least familiar with their characters, really engaged in the adventure, and aware of some rules. The other two could help me out a lot by doing some research on their characters outside of game nights.